In 2013 poet Sarah Hesketh spent 20 weeks visiting a residential care home for people with dementia. The result is The Hard Word Box, a book of poems and verbatim interviews published by Penned in the Margins. This is an exclusive edited extract based on a conversation with one resident, George.
George: What’s that?
Sarah: That’s my pen.
[handles pen] Age Concern? My God, they’re thinking about us already. They’ve got pens out for us at Age Concern! We can still remember you know. You’ve got nice hands anyway.
Oh, thank you.
And you’ve got a ring on. Are you married?!
No.
Oh, I’m glad you’re not. You’re in my good books then. I wish I was 21. We’d have a lot more fun then.
'I’ve never been still with my feet. But I’ve never ever liked dancing. I couldn’t see nowt in it'
Would you take me dancing?
Nah, I’m not a dancer. That’s something I’ve never…I’ve always been a footballer. I’ve never been still with my feet. But I’ve never ever liked dancing. I couldn’t see nowt in it. You’re wasting your time. There was a lot of fellas in my younger day used to go dancing.
How did you find a wife then, if you didn’t go dancing?
I dunno. I can’t remember how I come to get married. I can’t remember that. That’s something I can’t remember, how I come to meet her…I think everybody liked me. I’ve never been one for causing trouble. Fighting? Have I heck. That was my favourite thing to say. "You two, bloody grow up!" "Will you never grow up?" "What you doing it for?" "You’ll hit him, he’ll hit you. Who’s won?!" The only thing, I’ve not been a fighter. I’ve never fancied it. It’s not that I can’t do it. I probably could do it. But I used to say what do you wanna fight for? You hit me and I hit you. Who’s best off then? Because if we do, I promise you, whatever we do, I’ll hit you bloody harder than you hit me. No. I’ve never been a girl man.
Now, I don’t believe that.
No, no. Not really. I like girls. I like them. But they are…the longer I live, the longer they make me happy. George! It’s no good saying, "what have I missed?" I could still get it now even though it’s older! Ha. I’m sorry.
'Better to cry – no, better to laugh than to cry, whatever you do'
You’re alright, George.
Better to cry – no, better to laugh than to cry, whatever you do. But it’s funny that. When I were younger, I were never a girly man. There were lads liked girls at school and all that but I used to say, I’d rather play football or summat. I’ve probably been wrong but you don’t know. You can’t be right all the time. The only thing, I’ve never been a fighting man. That’s something I’ve often said to myself. I should have been a bloody fighter. I weren’t frightened of fighting but I just used to say, grow up. That’s one of my favourite sayings, whenever there were any trouble coming. Just grow up. Why don’t you two bloody grow up. You know, that were my favourite saying, and it’s stuck with me. The only thing that beats me is my ears. They beat me. I missed things many a time. You’ve said something there and I don’t know what you’ve said. That happens all the time and it really annoys me. I miss all sorts of things with that. And I don’t like repeating myself, saying “what did you say”? Sad thing. But that’s a thing that has beat me. And when I think over the years, I can’t even think where anybody’s tried to do owt about it?
'If you ever do summat wrong and you know you’ve done it wrong, you’d wish you’d never done it'
Do your hearing aids not work so well?
No, well, they’ve been messing about with them this morning. I can’t hear a bloody thing. I don’t know what I have these on for. I’ve had them on a bit now anyway. There’s all sorts in today’s world. Probably things are a lot better, I don’t know. I should have tried some, somewhere, but I haven’t done…That’s the only good thing about me is, I’ve worked for all kinds of different people. Rich people – in the racing game. But I’ve never ever touched anything. Never touched money. Mind you, when we’re talking about carrying. I’ve been carrying sometimes for people between five and ten thousand pound. And I’ve been in charge of telling them what to do, which is a big temptation. And especially when you haven’t got so much in your pocket, you know. And they’d probably never find it. Never even think about it. But I’ve never been a thief. So that’s something that’s stuck with me. Touch wood. That’s a good thing about me, what I’ve done. But I’ve had opportunity. If I’d have been a villain, I could have took what I wanted. And I could probably have not got caught. Because when they know you…they assume you won’t. When you know who’s who and what’s what. Once you do something wrong you’re out. That’s it. You never never in your life get back. Oh, if you ever do summat wrong and you know you’ve done it wrong, you’d wish you’d never done it. Too late wishing I’d never done it because they know what it is. You’re only too aware.
Were they good men to work for?
That’s what’s beating me now, talking. I miss things.
Were they good men, your bosses?
Oh, top men were always top, dead straight men. From what we saw. But behind the tapes, what goes on. You know what I mean? People do all sorts of things in this world. It’s a rum world, I tell you. You wouldn’t believe it if you put it all down in writing in a book. Somebody would say, that’s a load of old cobblers that.
You should write that book.
Nah. I could roll out some nice tales. I’ve never done… I can honestly say that I have never, ever in my life, put my hand in the till and took money. I’ve had all kinds of money on me. When I’ve been away racing somewhere and we’ve been winning. Go on George, stick that in your pocket. I’ve had bloody money all over me. And nobody bothered. They might say how much is there? See – there’s a monkey there. Five hundred pound. Or you might have two thousand, three thousand pound if you’re winning. But they don’t check it. They don’t count it for a fiddle. And touch wood, I’ve never done it.
They say money’s not everything.
No, but when you’ve real money. It’s a difficult position. Scratting about if you’ve not got much in your pocket and you’ve just had…and we hadn’t been married long, about that time. But it’s never… I’ve never even thought about pinching money, never. I’ve had loads of cards and I’ve never once in life. And he wouldn’t have missed it anyway. They probably wouldn’t have done but I’ve never done it. Because once you’ve done it, oh you do it again. You do it once and get it, guaranteed you’ll do it again. The other thing I’ve not been – I’ve never been a fighter. I’ve never been one for fighting. I did try it. I’ve had a go when I were younger. Doing a bit of boxing, you know. I used to think to myself, what’s this nonsense. I never enjoyed it. No, not massively. You hitting me and me hitting you.
'You’ll never get rich working. I promise you, not working for somebody'
Did you bet yourself?
What’s beating me now is when somebody says something.
Did you bet a lot yourself?
No, not really. I’ve not been a gambling man. I might, I dunno. When you’re talking about seven days a week. There’s all sorts can happen. Once you’re amongst gamblers…there are some really thick men. Makes you wonder…I used to sit down at night many a time and think, how the bloody hell did you ever get any money? But somewhere along the line they’d got a business going or some villainy. You know what I mean? That’s how people get money. You don’t get money with working. Whatever you do, you live to be a hundred years of age!
You’ll never get rich working. I promise you, not working for somebody. Not unless there’s a fiddle somewhere. Oh, I could tell some stories if I could get someone to write the books for me. Some nice tricks and things. But I’ve never been…I’ve never stolen any money. Because in them days you know, there’s more to come. There was always something happening. Once you do something wrong you’ll never get back. They just ignore you. And you don’t want that.
Is it a business that needs trust?
I could have done all sorts of things when I think back. I could write a book, well, I could have done. "And what did you do?" And I’d put: Nothing. "What did you do?" Nothing. And they’d put at the bottom, "Well you must be a mental case, not to do it." And if they never get made….gamblers, they’re a different world to us. They’re in a different world. And once you’re out, you’re never, ever back in. But yet they’re as good as gold. If you’re ill or something, or the family’s in trouble, something like that. If you’re snowed under – "What do you want?" "What do you need?" It’s there. There’s good and bad of everybody. What I know of it, anyway. There’s bound to be some villains.
Did you always work for the bookies?
I started out as an apprentice boot and shoe repairer. Up in Lancaster Road. An apprentice boot and shoe maker, that’s how I started my life. But I got into racing. When I were young – I were ‘appen, fifteen or sixteen, when I started looking at horses and racing and that. I don’t think it’s the same today as it was then. There was always something happening. But because I’ve lost it all…I don’t know who’s the villains and who’s not the villains. They might all look the nicest men in the world but they’d shoot you soon as look at you.
'I don’t think I’ve shot at anybody to say I’ve shot him. Although there’s one or two you might think – I wish I’d have fucking shot him'
Were there a lot of people carried guns?
Well, you carried a gun and thinking. I don’t think I’ve shot at anybody to say I’ve shot him. Although there’s one or two you might think – I wish I’d have fucking shot him. And I’ve sworn again there, you see. I’m sorry.
That’s alright. So you had a gun then?
Well, I had a gun but it was always hidden away, so ninety percent of them didn’t know I had a gun. I weren’t one of them cowboys that used to walk round with my gun in my holster. I didn’t like being a cowboy. I’d rather have been a villain.
Did you ever use it?
Nah, I don’t think I ever shot at anyone. I don’t think I ever shot at anyone to kill them. I probably shot to frighten them off. I dunno…when I think of myself then. What you see is what I am. I just don’t bother. I’ve probably missed all sorts of things in my life. Especially girls. There’s all sorts of girls isn’t there? Good girls, bad girls, nice girls, naughty girls. But I’ve not been one, anyway. I’ve not been one for chasing girls. They don’t want me, or they can want me.
'Somebody’s not been so well and I don’t know if my wife’s alright or not'
Well, you did get married.
Yes, I did get married. But I can’t remember… we are…at least I think we’re still together. I’m a bit…upset in my mind at the moment about it. I don’t know, somebody’s not been so well and I don’t know if my wife’s alright or not. You know? You know sometimes I go home and sometimes I don’t go home and they might not see me for a few months or something like that. I know it’s wrong, it’s wrong. I should be turning all that in now, at my age. Nonsense.
That’s one thing about me. I’ve laughed. I’ve had plenty of laughs in my life. I hate being a stubborn and awkward bugger. I’d rather laugh. The only thing that annoys me now is my ears. Because I miss things. Sometime I laugh when I should have cried. But I’ve never been a fighting man.
Where did you play football?
I started off at school. I were the captain, captain of the school football team. And I played twice on at Preston North End when I were a schoolboy. We won one and drew one. So I’ve got medals for them at home. I still have them, I haven’t thrown them away. And I’ve played football for different teams. Big lads team and all that. I weren’t a bad player even though I say it myself. If I’d been a lump of wood I wouldn’t have done it. Owt where I can’t do it, I’d just retire from it. But I’ve always been…suitable, you might say. But not with the girls, I’ve not been a girl man so I haven’t had time wasted chasing girls. I probably could have had plenty of girls but I’ve not been a chaser. All I can say is, what you see is what you get. If you like it, you can have it. If you don’t like it, you can lump it. But I wouldn’t do owt wrong, I wouldn’t ever hurt her. I wouldn’t ever hit a girl or owt like that. Over sex or that. That’s a little lads’ game that anyway, isn’t it? You either like it or you don’t like it. If you like it enjoy it, and if you don’t like it well, lump it. And if you don’t get married then you get to forty or fifty and think bloody hell, I wish I had. Well, it’s too late then, you can’t do it. You can’t turn that clock back.
'What you see of me really is what I am. I’ve gone through life as I am'
The only thing I’ve wished, really, not really wished…Right through my life from beginning to end…from starting from scratch…when you’re scratting about and you have nowt…and then you get struggling for money and summat goes wrong and you can’t get this and you haven’t got that. Them’s the bad times, you know. That’s where somebody comes out with, guns coming out. In them days you were talking about...if you wanted money…you just got a gun somewhere off somebody and you’d be bound to get some money. But I’ve never…I wouldn’t do it now. Even if I had nowt. I have nowt at this moment in time. But I’ve never bothered about money. If anybody wants summat and I have it in my pocket I give it them. That’s the end of it. I must be wrong in my mind. I think I’ve fucking had them and helped them. That’s the way it works. But it comes back round. It’s like the merry go round. One minute you have nowt and then next minute the merry go round’s come back and you say, oh we’re off again! It’s a good life, really you know. You might get involved with something boring where you’d be bored to death. But you can’t get out of it. You want to do summat else and you can’t.
But I can’t grumble. I’ve not been a dumbo at the game. I can pick something up. I can soon tell the wheat from the…what do they call it …from the chaff. But what you see of me really is what I am. I’ve gone through life as I am.
If I’d have been a fighter I’d have been a bad man. If I’d have been a fighter. But I’ve been in charge of this and… things I shouldn’t say…but it died off me. I don’t think I could do it now. I’ve got out of the villain’s game. I’ve given up wanting to be a villain. I don’t carry guns anymore. I just plod on.
The Hard Word Box is available to buy now. All images copyright Liam Walker. An exhibition of work based on Age Concern Central Lancashire's Where The Heart is project is at the Free Word Centre, London, until 24 June
